HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Committees - Civil Services Commission - 08/17/1995 . CITY OF KENT
CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES
August 17, 1995
Members Present: Mike Pattison
Ron Banister
Callius Zaratkiewcz
Others Present: A/C Aldridge, Lt. Shepard, Lead Evidence Technician- David Santos,
Human Resource Director- Sue Viseth, Chief Crawford, B/C Scott, Lt.
Cline, Detective K. Holt, Captain Jim Miller, others present.
Chair Pattison called the meeting to order at 8:05 a.m.
I. COMMISSION BUSINESS: Clarification of Civil Service Examiners position under Human
Resources.
Chair Pattison: "The reason that this clarification of Civil Service Examiners position is on the
Agenda today is that there has been some confusion and some phone calls from Catherine
regarding this move and also information that Human Resources wanted to approve or at least
examine our Agendas before they came to the Commission which has brought up some
questions with the Commissioners. So we're calling for some clarification today. Does anyone
have any input on this?"
Human Resources Director, Sue Viseth: "Yes. I'll speak to that. I think the reason this came
about was that we were working on the Department budget and putting together our
• organizational chart and as a result of that had reflected Civil Service Secretary Chief Examiner
position under the Human Resources umbrella in our Division. However, the Civil Service
Commission and its function still remains as a separate entity as do Public .... and Commissions
throughout the City. This concerned Catherine and she and I had quite a lengthy discussion and
I thought that, at the time, we had come to a resolution on this issue. Because, aside from that
we are overdue on her Performance Evaluation which I had talked to the Chair about earlier.
Initially I was asking for an Executive Session simply to notify the Commission that the evaluation
was due and asking for input from the Commission so we could move forward.
I was not aware that Catherine was under the impression that I would want to approve all of the
Agendas before they go out. She had asked me specifically if I would remove items from the
Agenda and I had stated specifically that I would not. I wanted a copy, usually I just get the one
page and I want the whole packet. Is that an unreasonable request?'
Chair Pattison: "Any other input today."
Chief Examiner Guiguet: "I would like to give input with regards to our conversation. My
understanding was not that Sue would vet the Agenda as such but my understanding was that
there might be items that Sue would want removed from the Agenda if they were negotiating with
the Unions and I didn't feel that it was appropriate and thats why I had asked the Commission for
clarification.
In regards to where my position sits. Professionally its very advantageous to me to sit under
Human Resources. But if I am reporting to the Director of Human Resources then we need to
address my position description to reflect that reporting relationship
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Civil Service Minutes
August 17, 1995
Quite often I find that working with the Union, my Commission and then coming under Human
Resources there are a lot of grey area which I am really unsure of. I do not want to end up in the
position where I'll lose my job over something where I don't know whose direction I'm supposed
to follow."
C/A Lubovich: "Just a comment, with respect to the Agenda. It seems to me that the Agenda
should be approved by the Chair before it is actually issued out. There is potentially a problem
with sending out amended agendas at the day of the meeting because nobody has notice.
Requests could be entertained at the meeting for amendments to the Agenda. Once the Agenda
is out supplementals could be issued but the question I have is the notice of what the items are
that are going on the Agenda currently when they are done on the day of the meeting or the day
before. But I would think that anybody has a right to request the Commission to entertain an item
and that the Chair would be the ultimate decision whether or not it goes on the Agenda. So if I
wanted to put something on that had to do with the secretary, obviously she's not going to want
to put something on if I'm going to be complaining about her. But I think that is something that
the Chair would be able to entertain. Anybody should be able to come to the meeting and ask
that something be added to the Agenda. Its really up to the Commission to determine whether or
not that will occur. That addresses that particular item."
CSE Guiguet: The reason I prepare the Revised Agenda is because since coming on board as
the Examiner there are various things that have been addressed in the minutes and people have
brought up additional items at the actual meeting and then I find that when I go back through the
years trying to track I have nothing showing on the Agendas and then have to read through all
the minutes. That is why I did it. I have no problem with not revising Agendas.
I have never, ever not put on the Agenda, if there are complaints in regards to myself. I think
past practice reflects that."
C/A Lubovich: I was not trying to say anything Catherine. What I was saying was that the point
of how Agendas were established. There is nothing wrong with doing amended Agendas at the
last minute. The point is that they should be at least addressed at the meeting to let people
know that there have been changes to the Agenda. Some people may be wandering around with
the old Agenda and not having a revised Agenda and not knowing what the new items are. Just
a point with the establishing of the Agenda."
CSE Guiguet: "Which means that if they had seen it that they might not have attended the
meeting?"
C/A Lubovich: "Right, might not have attended the meeting, wouldn't even have had notice of it.
That doesn't mean that something couldn't be added at the meeting."
Chair Pattison: "Catherine brought up a point she wanted to talk about a new job description
written to reflect the new relationship with Human Resources. Is that something that H.R. could
provide soon?"
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August 17, 1995
HRD Viseth: "We can certainly work with Catherine to do that and I do think that is appropriate. I
think her concerns are not unfounded with this recent transition. Try to finalize everything to
make it more clear. I felt very good after Catherine and I's conversation and do feel, and I think
she agrees that the transition into H.R. has been beneficial and will continue to be so and also
serve the Commission."
Chair Pattison: "Just a statement. When we first approved in essence through a round-about
this transition we were under the impression that this move was solely to offer Catherine
assistance when necessary. That was the only motivation behind the move. We're concerned
when issues such as review of the Agenda come up and so we're going to look at these with a
critical eye from now on. Also, Sue you mentioned that Catharines evaluation is overdue. Why
and what can we do to fix that?"
HRD Viseth: "It was timing. Her evaluation the year point was in March. We were right in the
middle of the transition period. You and I talked sometime earlier in the summer about the fact
that I had not had the opportunity to supervise Catherine to really conduct an evaluation. We
have new members on the Commission as well. We will be going through this as more of a goal
planning opportunity than a Performance Evaluation which is really how mappings are
established."
Chair Pattison: "Well what I'm looking for is when is it going to happen?"
HRD Viseth: "I was trying to set it up for September."
Chair Pattison: "Okay, so could we have that for the next Civil Service Commission meeting?"
HRDV: "Yes".
Chair Pattison: "Thank you."
Detective Kathy Holt: "I'm Kathy Holt with the Kent Police Guild and I am dittoing what you have
been saying. That was the Guilds concern in the very beginning. That there may be some type
of conflict coming out of this move. To support Catherine in getting some help we were willing to
accept that. I'm urging you to iron out some of these problems so that there isn't a conflict in the
future and she can go on with her job."
11. HEARINGS: None
III. OLD BUSINESS
A. Accept into Record
1. Chair Pattison moved to approve the Minutes from the July 20, 1995 Civil Service
Commission Meeting. Seconded and carried.
2. Chair Pattison moved to approve the documentation records for Firefighter James Lutz
• 1993. Medical leave of absence and date of separation from the Fire Department.
Seconded and carried.
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August 17, 1995
IV. NEW BUSINESS
A. Approval and Accept into Record
1. Chair Pattison moved to approve the Certified letter dated July 20, 1995 from the Chief
Examiner to Mr. Joseph R. Hertrich notifying him of the removal of his name from the
Entry Level Police Officers Eligibility List. Seconded and carried.
2. Chair Pattison moved to approve the memo dated July 20, 1995 from Chief Angelo to
Firefighter Buddy Sizemore advising him of his promotion to Firefighter Second Class
effective August 1, 1995. Seconded and carried.
3. Chair Pattison moved to approve the Certified letter dated July 25, 1995 from the Chief
Examiner to Mr. Jon Eric Buss acknowledging receipt of his letter withdrawing his name
from the Lateral Police Officer process and notifying him of the removal of his name from
the Lateral Police Officers Eligibility List. Seconded and carried.
4. Chair Pattison moved to approve the memo dated July 27, 1995 from Chief Angelo to
Firefighter Marty Hauer advising him of his promotion to Firefighter Second Class
effective August 2, 1995. Seconded and carried.
• 5. Chair Pattison moved to approve the letter dated August 1, 1995 from Chief Crawford to
Barbara S. Leech changing her appointment date of Probationary Police Officer from
September 16, 1995 to August 16, 1995. Seconded and carried.
6. Chair Pattison moved to approve the letter dated August 1, 1995 from Chief Crawford to
Mr. Michael S. O'Reilly changing his appointment date of Probationary Police Officer from
September 16, 1995 to August 16, 1995. Seconded and carried.
Lt Cline clarified that the actual hire order is Mr. O'Reilly hired in front of Barbara Leech.
Chair Pattison stated "let the record state that Mr. O'Reilly was hired first".
7. Chair Pattison moved to approve the letter from candidate Daniel J. O'Donnell requesting
that his name be taken off the Lateral Police Officers Eligibility list. Seconded and
carried. Seconded and carried.
8. Chair Pattison moved to approve the Certified letter dated August 9, 1995 from the Civil
Service Chief Examiner to Daniel J. O'Donnell acknowledging his letter and advising him
of his removal from the Lateral Police Officers Eligibility List. Seconded and carried.
9. Chair Pattison moved to approve the letter dated August 9, 1995 from Chief Crawford to
Mr. Randall P. Cox confirming his appointment to Probationary Police Officer, effective
September 19, 1995. Seconded and carried.
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August 17, 1995
10. Chair Pattison moved to approve the Certified letter dated August 10, 1995 from the Chief
Examiner to Mr. David R. Cortez, acknowledging his telephone request to Lt. Cline that
he no longer wished to be considered for employment with the Police Department and
notifying him of the removal of his name from the Lateral Police Officers Eligibility List.
Seconded and carried.
V. ACTION ITEM FOR DISCUSSION
1. Chair Pattison opened for discussion the letter from Administrative Assistant Kelli Rogers
asking for clarification on the qualifications for the upcoming Police Records Supervisors
promotional examination as they do not conform to the job classification on record at the
Civil Service Office.
CE Guiguet: "I was not here for your July 20th meeting I was ill. My understanding is from the
minutes is that Captain Jim Miller had requested that the minimum requirements be changed for
this test to reflect two years as a Police Records Specialist with the Kent Police Department and I
understand that there was no discussion and it was approved. Consequently I received no input
on this to my office. Within the last couple of weeks people had come into my office, once I had
posted the promotional for Records Supervisor. People were coming in and saying that it wasn't
really fair because it then blocked them out for taking the test. Consequently I came in this
morning and I had the packet from Kelli Rogers asking for clarification in regards to why the
• qualifications that had been agreed to in the Union Contract negotiations had been changed. In I
think November or December the Chair signed off and approved the particular position
descriptions with those qualifications December 15, 1994. Hers was clarification as to why the
minimum of two years as Records Specialist rather than the actual qualifications which are in the
position description.
When Support Staff came under Civil Service in 1989 it stated at that time in the Civil Service
Rules on page seven that for Police Clerk and any support that the job classification is what will
be used for the support staff."
Chair Pattison: "Is there any other input on this item?"
Captain Jim Miller. "In discussions that I had with Catherine, in the absence of anything else in
Civil Service the job descriptions would be the focal point for what were the qualifications.
Based on what we are going through in the City of Kent in preparation for annexation anticipated
opening of the East Hill precinct to be partially staffed by Records personnell and hiring and
training personnel. We came to Civil Service with our request that as it was approved that it
must be a current employee of Kent Police Department and have minimum of two years of
satisfactory performance as a records specialist. For the reason that we felt it necessary for a
good working knowledge of what Kent records does. Supervision is first general management
and that was the reason for the requested change."
Chair Pattison: "Roger, when we made this change did we act within our authority?"
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August 17, 1995
C/A Lubovich: "It is my understanding that the position description that was signed off in
December was done jointly with the City, Civil Service, Human Resources and the Union. That is
my understanding. Isn't that correct? The Rules do say that the description will be the
qualification. The position description basically on file will be the qualification requirements.
Section IV of this Rule says that the current job classification on file will be the qualification for
the position. Apparently at that meeting those minimum qualifications were different and there is
some inconsistency there. Unless there is an agreement by all parties I understand that the
Union has input on these job classifications and their contract. There is a problem with that
unless there is some concurrence on a new description there is going to be some conflict."
Chair Pattison: "Sue I see that you are on the verge of wanting to speak."
HRD Viseth: "Yes, the union was involved in assisting us in rewriting the position descriptions. It
was part of the negotiations process in preparation for salary survey that was to be conducted for
the support contract. It was important that everyone have buy in. It when through the incumbent
employees for review and their supervisors and Police Administration. So the guild had signed
off on them, Human Resources and Civil Service Commission ultimately did approve them.
That was the meeting that Catherine was absent and I filled in, it was a rather quick meeting. I
don't recall the Guild rasing any issues at that time. Perhaps Kathy would like to fill us in."
Detective K. Holt: "I'm just a little unclear as I was asking David. I was not aware of the Guild
being involved, it may have been John Pagel and he is on vacation. I have not had time to speak
to him so I'm a little naive on this subject at this time."
Captain J. Miller. "I can speak to my conversation with John Pagel if you'd like. Prior to coming
forward with the request that was approved at the prior meeting, I did work with John Pagel
regarding the wording and Dave Santos who is the representative for that section. So the union
was involved and supported it. I don't recall which Union person was here but Sue is correct,
there was no conversation from the Union either in support or against the proposal and I believe
that was because we had worked that out ahead of time and they were in agreement."
CE Guiguet: If I can interject, I was at the meetings myself with Becky Fowler and Debra Leroy
was the particular steward at the time we were working on the position descriptions. Becky
Fowler of the Human Resources Department, myself and also Captain C.E. Miller sat in on
those."
HRD Viseth: "I think that it would be a good idea to cant'this issue over to the next meeting. I
don't know what this will do to the process. It was my sense that since Captain Miller had had
discussions with the Guild regarding those changes, because there was no objection during the
last Civil Service Meeting that there was no problem. That we had concurrence by the Guild,
Police Administration and Civil Service which would be the route to take."
Detective K. Holt: "We have an Executive Board Meeting this afternoon, so I can speak to John
about this and I'm trusting that he was involved in this meeting. I can then clarify any questions
• you may have this afternoon."
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August 17, 1995
Chief Crawford: "I think from what I am reading that the Union certainly has no issue with this
because all of the Union people are involved with the promotional process. What I'm listening to
is that maybe people that are Civil Service but do not have Union representation, like Kelli
Rogers and maybe some others that want to have clarification. I'm confused on this whole thing,
very frankly. If its easy to understand, I'd like to have it explained to me. Do you understand it
sir?"
Chair Pattison: "I don't think that it is easy to understand."
HRD Viseth: "I do have one clarification. Its not all of the support union folks are eligible under
this change. You have secretarial and accounting positions that wouldn't have those years of
experience in that position that wouldn't be eligible who are members of the Guild."
Chief Crawford: "Is It illogical to ask that Supervisory positions be required to,have certain
amounts of time in their job function. I think thats what we asked the Civil Service Commission
to agree to last month. Am I wrong?"
Dave Santos: "Dave Santos of the Guild. No, we don't have a problem with that but we would
have to change the position description that is subject to collective bargaining unit we'd have to
do that in contract negotiations. Thats the only problem. In all fairness to the Administration, I
was talking to Captain Miller with regards to this and agree with you that there should be some
type of working knowledge of the records area to become a Supervisor in that area. To my
knowledge, no one in our Bargaining Unit has approached me, or anyone else in the Guild
requesting that this be looked into for the reason of applying for that job. Thats why you can see
that the letter comes from outside the Guild, not necessarily from the Guild. That doesn't mean
that this isn't going to open the door or now Guild members saying that they would like to apply if
it changes."
Chief Crawford: "I guess that brings up the next question. A job description doesn't necessarily
stay the same. My job description as Police Chief does not necessarily say that I have five years
of managerial experience before I could apply for this. I'm assuming that a job description for
Records Supervisor does not state that you have to have X amount of years. Does it? It does?"
CE Guiguet: "When we were sitting in our meetings, one of the things I brought up was did they
wish to have specifically in the wording the fact that the person worked in the Records Section. It
was stated that they wanted promotionals to be open for all. So therefore the wording was done
as 'graduation from high school, three years related administrative support experience in a law
enforcement agency and completion of course work or training in supervisory principles and
practices may be substituted for up to one year of experience'. They felt that would then allow
those who are currently working in administrative positions within the Police Department to also
apply."
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August 17, 1995
Cpt J. Miller: One further point of clarification. In a Kent Police Department, the Records
Supervisor is a working Records Specialist and there is a little bit of where the delineation comes
in. You need more than pure management skills. It requires a knowledge of the overall
functionality. Because they are expected to carry a shift and work in every capacity that the
Records Specialist works. It is more than just supervising the work output or arranging
schedules. It is physically knowing and doing the job itself. Especially this transition phase going
into annexation, hiring and opening up a precinct that we came to these requirements and
requests. These requirements which were approved of two years of experience as a Kent Police
Department Records Specialist."
Chair Pattison: "Is there any further input."
CE Guiguet: "Basically the position description needs to be changed to reflect the fact that they
would rather have the two years as a Records Specialist."
Chair Pattison: "Or we can eliminate the requirement but I prefer the first option."
C/A Lubovich: "I see that we go by the job description?"
Chair Pattison: "Right."
C/A Lubovich: "It doesn't seem to be an objection from the Union at this time but it could
become one because there is a conflict."
i
Chair Pattison: "Catherine would you prepare that, the job description."
C/A Lubovich: "That has to be negotiated. Perhaps Sue has some suggestions how to handle
that"
HRD Viseth: "Yes, we are currently in negotiations on all four of the contracts. I imagine this
issue will come up. It would be my recommendation that we maintain current prior to the last
meeting. I have a concern without having a conversation with John here. That we carry this
over rather than to make a decision. I don't want to get us into a situation where there is a unfair
labor practice or have not had negative conversations between the Captain and the Guild. There
be a misperception on what was agreed to and I'm not aware of the Guilds response. Until we
can get an answer from them I would be more comfortable if we would carry this issue over.
Catherine how does this affect you as far as the recruitment process?
CE Guiguel: "The actual promotional was due to be held right after our next Civil Service
Meeting. It would simply be a matter of sending out an E-mail to all personnel stating that the
promotional will be scheduled due to clarification regarding the qualifications."
HRD Viseth: "Captain Miller is anyone acting in that capacity?"
Cpt J. Miller: "No at the present time there is not an acting supervisor."
Chief Crawford: "May I ask a question sir?"
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Civil Service Minutes
August 17, 1995
Chair Pattison: "Yes, please do."
Chief Crawford: "Does that mean then that the Eligibility requirements if there is a time limit.
Now we have another opportunity for promotion. It means more people could be included in the
examination?"
CE Guiguet: "What he means is if we run the promotional further down the line that there will be
more people who would be eligible to apply for the position."
Chief Crawford: "Yes, is that correct?"
CE Guiguet: "Yes"
Commissioner Banister. "If we are going to table this until our next meeting basically can we
make a request that there be representation from everybody involved so that it can be handled at
that time so that it is not delayed again. I think that time is very important and I think with the
annexation coming every month is going to make it a little harder on the Police Department and
everyone else."
Chair Pattison: "Move to defer action on the promotional and bring it back to the next meeting
with all parties present." Seconded and carried.
There being no other business to come before the Commission, the meeting was adjourned at
8:35 a.m.
The next Regular Meeting will be held on Thursday, September 21, 1995 at 8:00 a.m. in
Council Chambers West.
Respectfully submitted,
1
Catherine M. Guiguet
Secretary& Chief Examiner
Approved:
U R, pU .�
Mike Pattison, Chair
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