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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Committees - Civil Services Commission - 12/20/1984 • CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES December 20, 1984 The regular meeting was called to order at 8 a.m, by Chairman T. Richard Ried. In attendance: Commissioners Ried, Hinz, and Street, City Attorney DiJulio, Assistant City Administrator Webby, Chief Angelo, Acting Police Chief Byerly, Assistant Chief LaBore, and Battalion Chief Bond. Also present: Dr. James Shaw, Firefighter Applicant Christopher Sproat. Commissioner Street moved, Commissioner Hinz seconded, to accept the minutes of the November 15, 1984 meeting. Motion carried. Mr. OiJulio suggested modification of the agenda by taking the matter of the • hearing first so that the parties involved could be on their way due to the weather conditions. HEARING OPENS: Christopher Sproat was sworn in by City Attorney DiJulio. Ried: I am T. Richard Ried, Chairman of the Kent Civil Service Commission. As this hearing is being recorded, I will ask Commissioner Hinz to identify herself. Hinz: I am Michelle Hinz. Ried: I will now ask Mr. Joe Street to identify himself. Street: I am Joseph Street. Ried: This is in the matter of the appeal of Christopher Sproat regarding the removal of his name from the Firefighter eligibility list. This hearing is • being conducted pursuant to the rules and regulations of the Kent Civil Service Commission. I will now ask the parties in this proceeding to identify themselves for the record by giving their name, address and telephone number. Do you have anybody but yourself? Sproat: No. Ried: So we need your name, address and telephone number. Sproat: My name is Christopher Sproat. My address is 26430 156th Place S.E. , Kent, Washington. My phone number is 6631 -1652. Ried: Now I will ask you to present your side of the case. Sproat: It has been over a month and a half when I met with Dr. Shaw to find out the reason and he explained I had deceived the test. To my recollection, I did not mean to do that or I had no idea that was even part of the test. I • did not do that on purpose or even under the circumstances or whatever. I had no reason to do that. Plus the fact I don't know why I would try to do that. I guess the main thing I would ask you guys to do, I don't know what the procedure is, is to let me take the test again. I don't know if you do that or, it just seems you go through all these steps and you guys spend all that money and it seems like I didn't even get a chance to speak to Dr. Shaw more than even ten or fifteen minutes. That's his thing, because he looked at that thing and he didn' t even get to score my test. That's just the proceedings that he goes through. Under those circumstances and the circumstances that the test was lost for a little while and we had some mix-ups and stuff, you know, I 've been trying for this job pretty hard and worked at it and with that little thing just in my background, I don't seem to be a deceitful person. I didn't do anything on purpose. Under the circumstances, something got mixed up or something, I 'm not sure. If it's the money part of it to do the test again or whatever, I can pay for that or whatever. If I could take the test again or if we could have another meeting, or I could go see another doctor or whatever, I have no reason or recollection of trying to deceive the test. So, • I am just wondering what your procedures are or if anything else can be done about it. I just feel it would be a nice place to work. I made it all the • way except for that little hitch at the end. I was wondering if there's anything you can do about that. Ried: Okay, thank you. Dr. Shaw was sworn in by Mr. DiJulio. Ried: Dr. Shaw, will you please give your name, address and telephone number. Shaw: James H. Shaw, 7519 Atchison Drive S.E. , Olympia, Washington 98503. Telephone number is 456-4818. Ried: I have before you, your letter dated July 25, 1984 and I guess what the Commission needs to do is to understand what the letter says. Shaw: Would you like me to explain the process? • Ried: Yes. Shaw: The Firefighter applicants are given this series of standard psycho- logical tests. These included the Sentence Completion tests, the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality, California Personality and Maturity, Edwards Personal Preference schedule, a projective test called the Rorschach and an interview. In Mr. Sproat's case, the testing was not lost. It was in the custody of the post office. They sent the test down Express Mail , which, in this case, was not the fastest and they let me know the test was in the post office when I needed to have them to come up. So I could not score the test ahead of time, like I usually do. They were not lost. The interview lasted at least 45 minutes. There is no way that I can go through the interview and do any Rorschach in fifteen minutes. That's just not possible. Ried: Excuse me, you say the interview lasted 45 minutes: You said you give a series of tests and then an interview. You mean an interview per se is 45 minutes or the entire testing procedure? • Shaw: The entire testing procedure, the written test, takes about three • hours. My interview took approximately 45 minutes. The interview, which includes the Rorschach takes about 45 minutes. Hinz: The written exam? Shaw: That was done before. So, basically what I indicated to Mr. Sproat is that I could not go over the test and determine whether there were any problems at that time because I had to score them after I got back to my office. When I got back and scored them, I found that both the Minnesota Multiphasic and the California Personality and Maturity were invalid. They were invalid because there appeared to be a deliberate faking in order for the applicant to put himself into a more favorable light. In that I really had no written test to use because they were both invalid and the Rorschach was an extremely marginal test with a lot of poor quality, I had very little to go on to make an evaluation. I called the Fire Department and said I really needed to have these taken over and they said "no, if there was falsification, they • would not see that they should be taken over" and so they asked me to write the report on showing why I could not make a decision and that is the report that you have in front of you. Ried: What is the MMPI test and what is its purpose? Shaw: That's a psychiatric screening test. It basically shows how an indivi- dual mainly will react under stress, whether he'll get along with other people. It was developed in the 1940's and is probably the most researched psychological test in existence. It is fairly accurate in determining emotional suitability for both police and fire. Ried: Is it possible for a person to appear to fake these tests even though he is not doing it deliberately? I know it's a hard question, but for instance taking what Mr. Sproat said, he had no idea what he should answer and shouldn't answer and not knowing what is the correct answer and what isn't, it's very hard for me to determine that someone is faking the psychological • test. Shaw: Alright. (Reading from the manual . ) On the MMPI the "L" score, which is known as the Life scale, this has 15 items that were selected to identify persons who are deliberately trying to avoid answering MMPI frankly and honestly. The scale assesses attitudes and practices that are culturally laudable that are actually found in the most conscientious persons. Content scales are areas within the "L" scale include denial of minor personal dishonesty, denial of aggression, bad thoughts, and weaknesses of character. For example, "I get angry sometimes". If you put "false", it comes up on the "L" scale. These types of questions. "Sometimes I 'm not feeling well , I 'm cross". Most people, when they're not feeling well , they're cross. So, when a person's trying to put themselves in a goad light, they answer "false" to those. You start answering "false" and you come up on the "L" scale. Out of 15 questions, Mr. Sproat answered 12 of those questions like that. One of the highest %" scales ever seen. The C.P.I. has similar questions and at 31 or above, the test becomes invalid and if you wish, I can read the manual on that. Ried: I understand from the examples of the other one. • Shaw: He had 35 out of 40. Didulio: Doctor, just for the record, would you reference the volume you have been reading from? Shaw: This is the same quote I had in the report and it's MMPI Interpretive manual written by Roger L. Green, copyrighted 1980. Ried: Any questions from the Commission? Thank you, Doctor. Chris, do you have anything else to add to that? Remember you're still under oath. Sproat: Like I said, I don't know if on some of those he read were the ones that I put on that. Back then, I didn't have any reason to do that. I thought like he said, this is just to pick out if you're "whacko" or some- thing, I don't know. I don't know, maybe I just "screwed up" or something, just that one thing like that. I just wish I could have another shot at it or to go to another doctor for another second which I don't think is really • necessary. • Ried: Do you recall , for instance, the two examples he gave, those questions? Sproat: I can't. Ried: Do you know how you might have answered those? Sproat: I can't remember. I was shocked, I guess, when I found out that was the reason, maybe, I don't know. I can't remember. Ried: For example, one of the questions, "Sometimes you get angry", how would you answer that, "true" or "false"? Sproat: "True", I guess. Everybody gets angry, I guess. Ried: (To Commission) Do you have any questions? Street: I have none. • Hinz: None. Ried: We'll take into consideration Dr. Shaw's testimony, Mr. Sproat's, and the written reports and the information before us and we'll come up with a decision. Is there any reason why we can't have an executive session after the formal meeting and come up with a decision? DiJulio: No problem, none at all . Ried: Thank you very much. END OF HEARING. THE REGULAR MEETING RESUMED. Mr. DiJulio reported that the only matter is concerning the Nirk matter. He • said the final order will not be entered until January and he will be back to the Commission with that report. • Chief Angelo reported the Firefighter testing will continue with the physical agility scheduled for early January and to complete the test in February with the oral board, and the list will be brought to the Commission for approval by the end of February. The Secretary inquired of the Commission that when the Firefighter tests were completed but the list not yet certified, if it is possible to schedule the psychological and medical exams in order to meet the time frame for the start of the academy. Mr. Street asked if the budget for additional Firefighters had been approved, to which Chief Angelo acknowledged that it was approved. Chief Angelo said he would be looking to fill nine positions, but it could often take about 12-15 applicants to go through the psychological and medicals to fill those positions. Mr. Street moved to approve the process of medical and psychologicals necessary to keep with the Fire Department schedule. Miss Hinz seconded. Motion carried. Acting Chief Byerly reported that an oral board for the next four applicants • on the law enforcement officer eligibility list is scheduled for January 15, 1985 as a result of the City Council 's authorization of one more position. The Secretary reported there are five applicants scheduled for the oral board, which is a continuation of the testing process. In response to Mr. Street's question concerning jailers applying for police officer positions, Acting Chief Byerly responded that they have to go through the testing process like all other applicants. Acting Chief Byerly also confirmed that Ann Newcome has gone on disability retirement effective January 1 , 1985. He said she is the last police clerk employed under Kent Civil Service. Mr. Street moved that the letter dated December 7, 1984 from Chief Skewes regarding his disability leave be made a part of the record. Miss Hinz seconded. Motion carried. The Chairman inquired of Mr. Webby of the status of this situation. Mr. Webby responded that they are waiting for the State • Board of Disability for its decision. Mr. DiJulio noted that Rule 11 , Section 4, provides that "no provisional appointment shall be longer than six months • and no person appointed provisionally shall be again appointed in the same year unless he qualified by competitive examination and is appointed in the regular manner". Acting Chief Byerly said that if the State Board sends a letter confirming the Chief's disability, at that time you can proceed with the selection process, but Mr. Street replied that even if the State Board approves the disability application, if Chief Skewes' condition improves, he could come back. Chairman Ried proposed that action on Rule 7, Section 7, 8 and 9 regarding police clerks be put on the agenda for next month. The next meeting is scheduled for 8 a.m. , Thursday, January 17, 1985. At this time, MEETING WENT INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION. MEETING RECONVENED. Mr. Street moved that the City Attorney be directed to review•" and bring his recommendations for amendment of Rule 10, Section - and Rule-N., Section 10 regarding police clerk provisions. Miss Hinz seconded. Motion carried. Miss Hinz moved to determine the date of the Firefighter examination on the current eligibility list as January 19, 1984. Mr. Street seconded. Motion carried. Mr. DiJulio clarified for Chief Angelo that although Mr. Sproat failed the January 19, 1984 examination, he is eligible to continue with the current Firefighter exam. With no further business, meeting adjourned at 9:12 a.m. Respectfully submitted, Amy E. Kato Secretary and Chief Examiner Approved: T. Richard Reid, Chairman 37V-lV